Mr Doricar
JDM Loose yo
As I'm planning on my drift car being track only this year I was contemplating funky fuels, i.e. methanol, nitro etc. Anyone know if that sort of stuff is cheaper than petrol or not?
Alcohol
- Thread starter Mr Doricar
- Start date
Ian.G
86 ColdTurkey
Hmmmm...
its not that cheap - my friend has ordered 20litres of high octane fuel to see if he can push more than 549bhp out of his stock 2.0L sti engine just on fuel alone (should be able to get approx 5deg more ignition advance). Its nearly £240 for 20litres... not such good value.
You should try using stuff like toluene to increase the octane rating...but its pretty dangerous stuff.
You'd need to do some serious engine work to make it run serious fuels.
Topfuel dori car - that would be a first.
its not that cheap - my friend has ordered 20litres of high octane fuel to see if he can push more than 549bhp out of his stock 2.0L sti engine just on fuel alone (should be able to get approx 5deg more ignition advance). Its nearly £240 for 20litres... not such good value.
You should try using stuff like toluene to increase the octane rating...but its pretty dangerous stuff.
You'd need to do some serious engine work to make it run serious fuels.
Topfuel dori car - that would be a first.
Mr Doricar
JDM Loose yo
Tuolene is very horrid stuff. My Dad managed to get some for me when I had my first proper bike. It's highly cancerous. I didn't realise that when I had the thing running in the garage with me adjusting my dynojet kit. Silly me! 
Was just thinking out loud really. Going to have proper management and throttle bodies so just thought it was an idea. I could then go to town compression wise 14:1 anyone?
Any ideas then? What about R/C car fuel. Does that cost mega bucks?
Was just thinking out loud really. Going to have proper management and throttle bodies so just thought it was an idea. I could then go to town compression wise
14:1 anyone? Any ideas then? What about R/C car fuel. Does that cost mega bucks?
Squeejy
---Can't Drift---
If you mean radio controled car fuel, then its about £8 a litre. Its a mixture of methanol, nitro methane and castor oil.
A guy I met a while ago said he used to put aviation fuel (I think its petrol and NM mix) in his car and he said it was rapid but the engine was fukked very quickly.
A guy I met a while ago said he used to put aviation fuel (I think its petrol and NM mix) in his car and he said it was rapid but the engine was fukked very quickly.
Dogs Danglies
Sick Puppy
Most performance engines that don't run on some form of petrol tend not to last very long i.e. some top fuel dragsters only have a life of 900rpm underfull load 
Alchohol fuels work on the idea that to get more power they burn more fuel, I think some drag races run almost 1:3 fuel to air ratios, comapired to a petrol engine of 1:14.7 but you'd be lucky to double the power, a cool side effect is the alcohol burns slower than petrol meaning big flames out the exhuast on over-run.
I have heared of people using aviation fuel in cars, I think the stuff they use, is used for propeller driven planes, not jet engines but have heard that it really damages engines.
Sure though that its possible to build a alcohol/nitro/methanol drifter might take some research to figure out a good engine set-up, but would be seriously cool
A good book to read is '4 stoke performance tuning' by A Graham Bell it talks about all this sort of stuff
Alchohol fuels work on the idea that to get more power they burn more fuel, I think some drag races run almost 1:3 fuel to air ratios, comapired to a petrol engine of 1:14.7 but you'd be lucky to double the power, a cool side effect is the alcohol burns slower than petrol meaning big flames out the exhuast on over-run.
I have heared of people using aviation fuel in cars, I think the stuff they use, is used for propeller driven planes, not jet engines
but have heard that it really damages engines.Sure though that its possible to build a alcohol/nitro/methanol drifter might take some research to figure out a good engine set-up, but would be seriously cool
A good book to read is '4 stoke performance tuning' by A Graham Bell it talks about all this sort of stuff
AVGAS from memory is the fuel that is used in general aviation combustion propellor aircraft - ranging 110-130RON(ish irc cant exactly remember from school) and they are also LEADED ! its not that expensive if you can find an aerodrome to supply you - but it would kill a cat and also you would need to setup fueling/timing/compression ratio to suit . . . I dont know much but hope that helps 
PhatBob
Ken Block???
Toluene is a carcinogen, but its also a pretty major part of pump fuel. You can add xylene (also not good for you) you can find both in cellulose thinners, which is used in spraying - so you've already breathed in a load of finely atomised carcinogens, and who knows you might well have drunk coffee as well (it contains over 200 toxins many of which are carcinogens as well!), oh and they've only just stopped putting Benzoic acid in soy sause
I've used non-blooming thinners mixed with the fuel in my S14, but I'm not convinced that it made much of a difference it may have knocked up the octane rating a few points, but its not any cheaper than running optimax.
The problem with funny fuels is the oil contamination, Nitromethane burns and forms Nitric acid - I used to get nose bleeds when I was working at Santa pod and the Funny Cars were on. You'd not want Nitric acid sitting in your engine (which is party why they strip the engines after each run).
Alcohol has a lower calorific value than gasoline, so you have to run almost twice as much and eliminate any components in your fuel system that may rust, as it absorbs water. If you use Methanol (over Ethanol) you'll have to consider the effect it has on your rubber components as it eats rubber on contact.
Propane is clean burning and has a very high octane (around about 120 IIRC), but you have problems with the storage. Its the best bet for clean power.
There is one other alternative that I've heard of a substance called d-limonene, which I wont go into here because you'll think I'm taking the piss. Suffice to say that its biologically sound, and is around 140octane.
Rob
I've used non-blooming thinners mixed with the fuel in my S14, but I'm not convinced that it made much of a difference it may have knocked up the octane rating a few points, but its not any cheaper than running optimax.
The problem with funny fuels is the oil contamination, Nitromethane burns and forms Nitric acid - I used to get nose bleeds when I was working at Santa pod and the Funny Cars were on. You'd not want Nitric acid sitting in your engine (which is party why they strip the engines after each run).
Alcohol has a lower calorific value than gasoline, so you have to run almost twice as much and eliminate any components in your fuel system that may rust, as it absorbs water. If you use Methanol (over Ethanol) you'll have to consider the effect it has on your rubber components as it eats rubber on contact.
Propane is clean burning and has a very high octane (around about 120 IIRC), but you have problems with the storage. Its the best bet for clean power.
There is one other alternative that I've heard of a substance called d-limonene, which I wont go into here because you'll think I'm taking the piss. Suffice to say that its biologically sound, and is around 140octane.
Rob
drift_gtir
360 Motorsport
if your lookimg for cheepish racing fuel have alook at that cool blue stuff by 76 oil , you can use it as octan booster or just start racing fuel
if i right it 106ron (can someone put me right if i not)
cheers lionel.
if i right it 106ron (can someone put me right if i not)
cheers lionel.
PhatBob
Ken Block???
Ratdat said:d'limonene comes from Orange peel doesn't it. I know it's a solvent but wasn't aware it had any value as fuel. Your exhaust would probably smell nice at least
It comes from citrus peel and can be used for fuel, to run it on a gasoline engine you'd need to blend some of the lower octane stuff that pump fuel uses to initiate the combustion cycle (n-butatne & n-heptane).
The trouble with it is that to get the cost down to pump fuel you need to buy it in 250litre containers.
When it comes to forced induction the best developments were done at the height of the Second World War where the need for higher performing engines meant that supercharger boost levels were pushed further (to provide faster fighters and bombers that could fly higher with a greater payload) but reliablity had to be maintained. To cut a long story short water injection with varying amounts of ethanol were tried and IIRC the best bet is 50/50 split of water and ethanol with a little acetone to help the blending process. They also tried mixing the water/ethanol in with the main fuel with varying degrees of succes - but you'd need to use more acetone to get water and gasoline to blend nicely. So a seperate water injection system is easier to get on with.
The reason that most turbo installations are not water injected is because of maintainance issues (keeping an eye on the water levels, mineral deposits fouling the injectors etc), but this shouldn't be a problem for a track car where maintainance and fluid level checks would become part of your pre-race checklist. You get a much smaller margin of error with water injection, because it allows you to run higher boost levels, so if it stops the engine is toast almost instantly, making an EGT guage an essential item.
I am very, very bored at work today, and dear god theres still another 7 hours to go...