Extending track on the rear (spacers, offset etc) Any negative effects?

M@r]{

M@r]{

Member
After fitting a wide arch kit on my car last year I had to run spacers at the back to fill the arches. The front didn't need to have the track extended as much. However this seemed to screw the handling. It would understeer quite badly. I then removed the spacers from the rear and it all seemed great again. Thing is it looks a bit rubbish as the rear wheels sit in on the arch.

Does anyone have any experience on opinions on how I can get around this? Would extending the front track by the same amount I extend the rear keep things sweet? Or isn't it as simple as that? Are there any other negative effects from putting large spacers on the front? Any benefits of using a lower offset wheel instead?
 
I'm no expert but i believe increased track also increases the grip levels? Certainly felt that way when i had ridiculously pokey wheels at the front.

So i guess if your running wider track at the rear it's just increasing grip? Therefore, pushing on. In theory, counter acting it by increasing the front also should fix this. I'm just rambling though, not very helpful sorry but i'm of the same opinion as you.
 
IMO playing with the Track is one of the most important things, the distance width and the distance between the contact points have quite an effect, even more noticable if your low power/high wieght.

I know there are effects, Everyone wangs on about making the Front track with wider gives you more Front end grip, In Grip racing IIRC you will just go for the biggest track you can possibly run, having a number of effecting effecting grip including changing your c of g.

sorry i cant give you more info into how to solve it, my breaks just ended, the balance of my car is great, that why i have been insistant on not changing any track width
 
Widening the track makes the car more stable in the corners (with the right supporting mods) and effectively acts to lower the centre of gravity allowing you to corner quicker.. I don't think it actually adds grip to the vehicle as your tyres still have the same contact patch and friction co-efficient. If you think of the lower arm as a leaver (handle at wheel emd and fulcrum at subframe end) then by widening the track you've effectively lengthened the leaver acting against your suspension so when you corner the suspension now travels further and is working harder. I suspect (I don't 100% know) that you just need to stiffen up the rear to counter this and take a look at your front geometry/tyres/pressures to add some front grip. -if inndoubt - ask stav
 
Doripoints- Dont fucking ask me about suspension, thats my 2nd worst subject behind electrics, lol.

TBH though, its logic really.
If doing that to the rear has increased understeer despite NO changes to the front, only one thing has happened- the rear somehow has more traction. Adjusting the rear wont have magically gave the front LESS grip!
If this is a problem you just need to counteract that with less rear grip some other way, more front grip, or a driving style change.

I know of a few FWD track racers for example with wider front than rear tyres. Fuck, the new Audi S3 has wider front than rear tyres. This is to lessen the bias towards understeer without reducing grip on the rear.
 
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So I assume you could counteract this by giving the front more grip by widening its track? So the moral of the story would be if you're going to widen the track do it by the same amounts from and rear?
 
if you do the same to Front and rear then in the most basic of terms, you will/may could (depending on loads of variables) have then increased the level of Grip evenly (ie front and rear). the "balance" may be / or my not be the same as when it was stock track - you will just have to find out. Probably Just with maybe more grip. but probably in the grand scheme of things 2/3 psi and a different tyre brand might be the same difference. or a different Track surface... there’s so many variables. my suggestion is to find a balance you like on a track/surface you know well. then when going to different ones just adjust accordingly. but always remember your base line. work from it.
 
If you take away some rear camber, assuming you're running some -ve on there, that should readdress the balance. 0 20" (assuming 60" to 1') should do it.

Lower offset wheel is better but doesn't matter all that much.
 
Stavros said:
Doripoints- Dont fucking ask me about suspension, thats my 2nd worst subject behind electrics, lol.

TBH though, its logic really.
If doing that to the rear has increased understeer despite NO changes to the front, only one thing has happened- the rear somehow has more traction. Adjusting the rear wont have magically gave the front LESS grip!
If this is a problem you just need to counteract that with less rear grip some other way, more front grip, or a driving style change.

I know of a few FWD track racers for example with wider front than rear tyres. Fuck, the new Audi S3 has wider front than rear tyres. This is to lessen the bias towards understeer without reducing grip on the rear.
Click to expand...

Sorry, I know your a turbo/engine wealth of knowlege so I assumed you may know all :). Having spent most of the last 10 years building fwd race cars stav is right.

Having built and worked trackside with alot or fwd cars there are hundreds of ways to reduce understear. You could decrease front tyre pressure, adjust Damping/springs camber tyre compound widen track etc etc etc - but how what I know translates to drift car set up I'm yet to find out?? I will however be using some sticky rubber up front, widened the track front and rear and will prob run lower tyre pressures & softer suspension up front compared with rear as well as dial more camber (-2.5degs ish) at the front and maybe -0.5 rear with 0 toe all round... To start off. It's all down to driver preference though I guess??

Try it/change it until you find something that works for you. Curious to see how you get understear whilst drifting though??
 
There is no difference between running 25mm spacers or running a wheel with a 25mm lower offset as far as handling is concerned. After all, the suspension doesn't "know" there an extra join between hub and wheel.

Wide track does increase stability but alignment and suspension set up is more important to get the car balance right imo
 
The wheel will have more "Leverage" against the shock/spring, in turn making the shocks feel softer, adding slight bias towards understeer (soft rear/hard front = understeer). This will be the main reason you feel a change. Fair fucks for even noticing tho, im as dumb as a post and rarely notice any changes, i just press the gas.

Just throw it in harder/run more PSI/stiffer rear spring to compensate. I'd go with the first option. An understeer biased drift car is a fast drift car, and its free..
 
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