footwork set-up, help!!! TECH!!!

M

mitto

-NIGHTSPIRT FAMILY-
ok so im going to be taking the car to be lazer jiggeried and setup. im wondering if anyone can get any links or info specific to drift set-ups for the S14. so far im thinking...

Spring - FRONT 11kg REAR 9kg

Camber - FRONT 3 neg REAR 1.5 neg

Toe - FRONT 10mm out REAR 1mm in

Caster - FRONT 8 POSITIVE REAR ?

the car is running

nismo GT PRO LSD set to 1.5 way
18x11J ET -6 REAR (255/35/18)
17x9.5J ET - 11 FRONT (235/45/17)

The car will also be running ARBS (prob whiteline) and has front tension rods, steering control arms (to go on order), rear toe links, rear upper control arms and rear subframe locking kit.

I have various spring rates availible (13,11,9,7,5 kgs) and can run any ride hieght/damper length (within D2 coilover limits)

im finding it difficult to get any decent information on drift set ups anywhere that include specific measurements, any help is greatly appreciated!!!
 
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rear toe in is bad, go for 0 or 0.5 toe out :nod:

camber looks good though, I'd go less on the rear but I guess with mahoosive tyres it doesn't matter so much:)

and theres not really such a thing as rear caster, so edit your post before you look a foooooel :wack: hahahahaha

any chance of a pair of the 9k springs going 'missing'? nudge nudge ;) ;)
 
rear toe in is bad, go for 0 or 0.5 toe out
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:nod: Rear toe out is the way forward, or sideways as the case may be. Not entrirely sure on rear camber. I know someone who runs 2.5 neg on the rear of his s14. Suppose it all comes down to personal preference?
 
i run 6 & 6 kg springs on tein he's

front camber -2 L
front camber -2 R
front caster 8*0 L
front caster 8*0 R
front toe 0*0 L
front toe 0*0 R
rear camber -1*30 L
rear camber -1*30 R
rear toe 0*0 L
rear toe 0*0 R

and it does the job very well
 
spring rates kinda depend on what surfaces you'll be driving on, but having been in Phil's car with 12kg/10kg I'd say that's too hard for most crappy venues we drive at (ie, not super smooth Silverstone tarmac) can't remember what he swapped them for, but it's still bloody hard and has a bit of a tendancy to bounce when things get bumpy....
 
just out of interest mitto, why have you got your diff set to 1.5 way not 2 way??

i think when i eventually get round to doing this to mine id like to get the rear set up quite neutral, ie 0 toe in and only a slight bit of camber, then wack the camber on the front, couple of degrees of toe out, and a slight bit more castor..
i found with the castor angles, if you change them too much it makes the car quite strange to turn and doesnt feel right, so mine is at almost standard angles at the mo
sorry i cant be more specific but ive no idea what degrees etc it has :(
 
cheers for the posts guys :thumbs:

ok my diff is set to 1.5 cus i like the car to return quickly off throttle, which is why you see me bashing the handbrake a lot :wack: i like choku style drift tho so it suits me, i might adjust it to two way but i dont think my style requires it, i like to model my style on hariguchi (FC3S, he runs a 1 way!!!)

i know what your saying about the hard springs there james, but my car is too wide and too low to run softer really. although i'm going to give F9 R7 a go and see what that is like.

ok if the rear remains netural -ish- im more concerned about steering angle and front set up. im pretty sure around 10mm toe out will give me good steering angle, 8 pos caster will increase steering response and all i need to to adjust the steering tie rod ends to increase lock angle. but... i need help with all that?!?!
 
Think about it...

a) toe out gives a sharper turn in response because upon turn in, the inside tyre has more drag than usual, hence causing torque on the whole car and this helps it turn. As an exagerated diagram, your front wheels are like this: \ ---- / So with that in mind, you can visualise the drag caused by the inside wheel when you turn in.. This helps you flick your car more aggressively.

b) something i didnt realise about toe out was again, steering angle when counter steering. Aswell as the outside wheel having having more drag (the same effect as the initial turn in drag but on the outside when you counter steer), the outside wheel also has more angle to it. Again, visualise your wheels with 0 toe: | ---- |... Now visualise them on countersteer with 0 toe: \ ---- \ With that in mind, visualise what would happen when you counter steer with toe out.. Here is how they look straight: \ ---- / So imagine when countering: __ ---- \ <---- bad diagram but it might make sense? Its the best i can draw with my keyboard, :smokin: but basically the outside wheel has more angle to it because of the toe out.. I think its called Akerman or something but i aint sure. :)

Confused?! haha... erm.

Paz
 
yeah, every setup I've seen has had 0 toe or a teeny tiny amount at most? when I bust a steering rod ages ago me and cas put another on in a hurry and set the toe by eye, it looked perfect but above 20mph it screetched! 10mm seems like more than enough to be noticeable by eye :confused:

sounds like it would work though, but I want proof first :p :thumbs:
 
matt said:
and set the toe by eye:
Click to expand...

Every body knows you need string and some paint/marker to be 100% accurate. Hahahah. I run 0 toe with my Trueno, i ran some toe out with my Levin. Also, rear wheel drive toe's out a tiny bit when you drive anyway.
 
I ran 10mm toe out for a while, it's definatly good for recovery, it can feel a little weird when turning in to initiate.. I had to set it to neutral again as it's really dangerous in a straight line, and I was doing a fair few miles on the motorway..
 
yeh i had about that when i put the toe arms on before it aligned, it kept wanting to kill me and wouldnt go in a straight line, i had to take the back roads to get the the garage to get it aligned as i would have prolly stacked it getting there on the motorway :)

i would try a load of differany settings if it wernt so expensive to have it laser aligened each time, got better things to spend my money on, like making it go
 
I found the best mothod was trial & error, though it helps if you have access to a 4 wheel alignment kit as I have. :thumbs:

I started at zero everywhere on the alignment front, then went for toe out, then camber & worked around that way. I now have a good understanding of what effects what & how it drives.

Originally I had a home made set up with a laser pointer/level gauge thing, a home made camber kit plumb gauge kit & lots of measurements on the CAD to start with. It was 99% accurate much to the amazement of myself & the lads at the garage who poopaaahd the whole concept. It's a doddle to make your self, I'll see what I can do as a guide to a DIY kit.

As I found even if you get the settings all perfect it never feels right & I often found my self making manual adjustments for feel.

I'm now running 2.5 & 2.7 camber f & r (a bit less for the wet ideally), 1-1.5 deg toe out f & r, but my car is gay so that counts for sod all I suppose.
 
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Paz said:
I think its called Akerman or something but i aint sure. :)
Click to expand...

http://website.lineone.net/~richardn/Guru.html#Akerman

Matt, you should read these as well.
http://www.smithees-racetech.com.au/theory/
http://www.whiteline.com.au/default.asp?page=/faqsusp01.htm
http://www.mrtrally.com.au/performance/howctc.htm
http://www.ozebiz.com.au/racetech/theory/align.html

And go buy this...
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/185960644X/qid=1104590124/ref=pd_ka_0/026-5036742-5962015

Halfway through reading mine, not all useful but it will give you some basic knowledge which you can apply to any changes you make.
 
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