New to the drift scene

Well my name's Rob im 25 and I've just brought an e46 2001 325 manual I've been into motocross since I was young but now feel like a new challenge as I love my cars too I'm hands on and mechanical minded at the moment the car is used as a daily until I get the audi a4 sorted which will be in the next couple of weeks. I've always loved watching drifting I go up to essexs arena as much as I can to watch it in fact I'm going to today for the 4th round of king of the ring. I'm looking for advice on where to start basically and meet a few people along the way. Has anyone got any knowledge on e46 builds or has done one before ?
 
Well Ill be the first to say welcome to you, I'm new here to and got an e46 330 that I'm thinking of drifting too, so Im looking into what do to but i know best 4 things to do to start, strip it, hyrdo, coilovers and weld the diff. Take it from there.
 
Don't bother with the strip it and hydro. People get this strange idea that you need a hydro - you don't. The welded/LSD diff is the first, then coilovers. Maintenance, upgraded cooling and a bucket seat would be the next

Search the boards for E46 builds to see anything specific. Also search for "beginner" or "drift day" for threads on events

There are around 50-60 updated threads every 24 hours on here, so there is a lot of new info available on events. @DangerousFrank_E46 - considering you're in Hertfordshire i'm surprised you haven't considered going along to Santa Pod.
 
Just a quick tip that some professional drifters said to me, Learn to drift before relying on a hydro, pretty much once you get a hydro you over use it and then rely on it where you should be learning to drift properly :) I look forward to seeing you at events
 
You need to define between a hydro and the cars normal handbrake.

Yes you should use the normal handbrake when learning, just as much as all techniques. One of the hardest things when starting is just synchronising clutch-in with handbrake-up with bringing revs up before handbrake-down and clutch-out, but so is proper weight shifting, throttle control and heel-toe (a lost art IMO)

Get the factory handbrake working well with some routine maintenance, and put some tape over the button to hold it in before you go out and you're sorted. The benefit of a hydro (starting to hate that term right now) only minutely increases when you're finally at the level where you're chasing people really closely at high wheel speeds (90+mph) and the factory stuff overheats and requires constant adjustment. In these situations using the rear calipers to lock the rears is more effective as the caliper & disc are designed to dissipate heat more effectively than a handbrake used only for parking.

You're kidding yourself if you think you NEED one for anything under 60mph wheel speeds / ~40mph actual speed. Anyone who says different is an idiot or has a vested interest in selling hydraulic handbrakes
 
I was only saying about a hydro mainly because the handbrake on my car is fooked with the backing plates being corroded so I wouldnt be able to use the normal handbrake anyway.
 
Bmw handbrakes are wank, but use that as an incentive to learn without. It will make you initiate much faster using the cars weight.
 
I see about 1 in 10 hydraulic handbrake installations go smoothly. The other 9 have either constant bleeding problems, poor locking capability, master cylinder quality issues, master cylinder size issues, mount issues (bending, cracking), etc etc

If you had around a 90% chance of added expense / headaches / reworks why would you not spend the money instead on getting the factory items back up to a working level?

Even a "soft" factory handbrake is fine as long as your not trying to pull it in a straight line without transferring weight
 
The way the bmw handbrake is designed if the back plates rust which they all do over here, and you pull it with any sort of wheel speed the shoes pull the locating pins out the back plate and make horrendous noise as they tumble around inside.
I'm not arguing for fitting a hydraulic one though, it's boring to watch and lazy to drive with.
 
I'm just struggling to see how 25 quid to replace the backing plates is reason enough to fit 100+ quid in handbrake
 
I'm just struggling to see how 25 quid to replace the backing plates is reason enough to fit 100+ quid in handbrake
Just because its a pure pain in the ass because you need to remove the whole rear hub assembly just to get to it and I think it would be a lot easier just fitting a hydro and a lot less messing about..... but as a lot of people have said it is lazy and boring and better to learn without it which I am coming to terms with, so might just remove the handbrake stuff all together as mine is screeching and rumbling about and see how I go. someone has kindly chopped through an aircon pipe so might aswell remove the compressor save a whole 6kg or something. Really want to fit coilovers out fit a bucket seat and weld the diff and just go drifting.
 
Exactly that, it's a pain in the tits. And they don't operate the same as most other drum handbrakes. Bmw shoes pivot at the top and open at the bottom so very likely to rip out on new back plates too. It is only a parking brake.
I totally see where your coming from and very annoying that the uk thinks a welded diff and a hydro are the start to drifting.
 
Exactly that, it's a pain in the tits. And they don't operate the same as most other drum handbrakes. Bmw shoes pivot at the top and open at the bottom so very likely to rip out on new back plates too. It is only a parking brake.
I totally see where your coming from and very annoying that the uk thinks a welded diff and a hydro are the start to drifting.

Im guessing you do drift then do you ? What was your first mods when you started? The diff dosent need to be welded as I can turn off the traction control and I have managed a few good smokey donuts in my workshop yard.
 
I welded my diff, bought bc's then replaced all the bushes in the car with polys. Fitted a steering wheel and a seat eventually.
Smokey one wheel donuts are for car meets in carparts.
 
I welded my diff, bought bc's then replaced all the bushes in the car with polys. Fitted a steering wheel and a seat eventually.
Smokey one wheel donuts are for car meets in carparts.
Haha yeah I agree with the smokey donuts are for pre pubesent teenagers at car meets I was just fannying around, how was the steering lock and geometry for drifting as standard?
 
Standard bmw lock is fine for learning, as you lower the car it will increase rear camber but this will help you learn.
If you buy decent coilovers they will come with camber adjustable topmounts for the front.
Adding eccentric bushes will allow you to increase caster allowing better self centre.
Alignment is a personal preference thing but running a neutral setup of zero tow front and rear and a bit front camber for more bite on lock should be nice to learn with.
But none of this is needed for learning weld the diff and go do a skid then upgrade or replace as stuff breaks.
 
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This is where i get frustrated. Removing a rear hub assembly shouldn't be seen as a "pain in the arse" it should be seen as an opportunity to learn if you haven't done it before. If you have done it before then it'll be faster, and it's not going to be the biggest job you're going to do on the car. It also gives you an opportunity to check wheel bearings, caliper seals, brake line condition etc

Hell, someone even found a way to do it where you don't need to take the hub off at all :http://www.pelicanparts.com/BMW/tec...king_Brake_Shoe_Backing_Plate_Replacement.htm

It just shits me when people think that maintenance can be avoiding by upgrading other parts instead (and which come with a raft of their own issues)

I understand the BMW handbrake system is not the best, but a system in good condition is going to suffice when trying to lock 195's at 45psi on -3 deg camber. Some would argue it's even easier to lock as speeds increase and the handbrake is helped by the car's momentum. I've seen plenty of fixes for the locating pin pulling out, some as simple as adding a pressed washer, others more involved, but none as expensive as installing even a cheap China wand.

But i guess a cheap washer, learning how to fix your car yourself and applying some common sense / ingenuity isn't cool these days
 
This is where i get frustrated. Removing a rear hub assembly shouldn't be seen as a "pain in the arse" it should be seen as an opportunity to learn if you haven't done it before. If you have done it before then it'll be faster, and it's not going to be the biggest job you're going to do on the car. It also gives you an opportunity to check wheel bearings, caliper seals, brake line condition etc

Hell, someone even found a way to do it where you don't need to take the hub off at all :http://www.pelicanparts.com/BMW/tec...king_Brake_Shoe_Backing_Plate_Replacement.htm

It just shits me when people think that maintenance can be avoiding by upgrading other parts instead (and which come with a raft of their own issues)

I understand the BMW handbrake system is not the best, but a system in good condition is going to suffice when trying to lock 195's at 45psi on -3 deg camber. Some would argue it's even easier to lock as speeds increase and the handbrake is helped by the car's momentum. I've seen plenty of fixes for the locating pin pulling out, some as simple as adding a pressed washer, others more involved, but none as expensive as installing even a cheap China wand.

But i guess a cheap washer, learning how to fix your car yourself and applying some common sense / ingenuity isn't cool these days

I was saying its a pain in the arse because it is a ballache to do the job properly, and if it was an everyday road car then I wouldnt have any second guessing whether to do it or not.

What frustrates me even more is putting in the work and effort for it to be no use and just wasted parts and time and then still have to fit something else in the end anyway. Thats why the original question of the h word was asked (by me), along with starter mods to get drifting by the OP.
 
I hear you, but I'm not of the opinion that the car not being used on the road means the factory handbrake can be neglected.

About 9 years ago i was pit crew for a guy at a competition here that had a water reservoir next to the pits. He had no factory handbrake, just a hydraulic one with those flip over latches to "hold the handbrake on". It's well know now that the latches don't work as the fluid bleeds past the cylinder eventually, but at the time it wasn't common knowledge. The car rolled 5m before he managed to jump in and throw it into gear when it was a foot from it going down the bank and into the pond. He fitted a factory handbrake after that, and when his hydraulic one failed halfway through a competition a year later he ended up using the factory item for the rest of the event with no problems, even with 235's on 20psi at half a degree of camber

How long do you think replacing the backing plate, adding pressed washers and beefier locating pins would take? Compared to fitting a hydraulic item (clearing space and bolted or welded in), running & fitting lines and then rebleeding the brake system?

When most people get into the sport funds are at a premium. If you're in that position then you have to weigh up an average of GBP150 for a hydraulic handbrake, versus all the other starter items, and the option of spending less than a quarter on refreshing factory stuff (+ the addition of the small upgrades). And even when everything else is done i'd still put the next bit of extra money into tyres, fuel and entry fees.

The idea around future proofing really only comes into it when you're at a level that necessitates significantly more rear grip, as that is the main element that increases load on the handbrake. When you're at that level then you're probably doing a lot more chasing so i can see the sense in the upgrade. But from starting to that point for most people are years / 10+ events.

Good discussion btw. Most pro-HH people tell me to fuck off when i try have a discussion with them (feel free to do the same lol)
 
Wow, thanks for taking the time and actually writing a full write up.

I was pretty close to telling you to fuck off at one point lol but theres no need for that really.

I think its maybe like 3 hours a side to change to do properly, I know I can just cut the plates and slide it around would make it easier and quicker.

If this is the kind of response on asking on only 1 element of drifting (and a pretty insignaficant one) Id hate to ask about anything else haha.

The idea of a hyrdro at the min is proper gone the other way now as in not really wanting/ needing to do it. As you pointed out maybe for serious comps and chasing.

I know we briefly touched on stripping it out, but why did say not to bother with stripping after all its free (unless your at a gentleman club).

Seriously going to look at decent coilovers first and try a welded diff, see how I go.
 
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