Oil advice and recommendations

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I'm new here so please be gentle.

You may have seen me giving advice on other forums but I'm happy to help here if I can.

Here's some reading for those interested:

If you are "modding" your car and adding BHP then consider your oil choice carefully as the stock manufacturers recommended oil will not give you the protection that your engine requires.

A standard oil will not be thermally stable enough to cope with higher temperatures without "shearing" meaning that the oil will not give the same protection after a couple of thousand miles as it it when it was new.

Let’s start with the fundamentals. An engine is a device for converting fuel into motive power. Car enthusiasts get so deep into the details they lose sight of this!

To get more power, an engine must be modified such that it converts more fuel per minute into power than it did in standard form. To produce 6.6 million foot-pounds per minute of power (ie 200 BHP) a modern engine will burn about 0.5 litres of fuel per minute.(Equivalent to 18mpg at 120mph). So, to increase this output to 300BHP or 9.9 million foot-pounds per minute it must be modified to burn (in theory) 0.75 litres.

However, fuel efficiency often goes out of the window when power is the only consideration, so the true fuel burn will be rather more than 0.75 litres/min.

That’s the fundamental point, here’s the fundamental problem:

Less than 30% of the fuel (assuming it’s petrol) is converted to all those foot-pounds. The rest is thrown away as waste heat. True, most of it goes down the exhaust, but over 10% has to be eliminated from the engine internals, and the first line of defence is the oil.

More power means a bigger heat elimination problem. Every component runs hotter; For instance, piston crowns and rings will be running at 280-300C instead of a more normal 240-260C, so it is essential that the oil films on cylinder walls provide an efficient heat path to the block casting, and finally to the coolant.

Any breakdown or carbonisation of the oil will restrict the heat transfer area, leading to serious overheating.

A modern synthetic lubricant based on true temperature-resistant synthetics is essential for long-term reliability. At 250C+, a mineral or hydrocracked mineral oil, particularly a 5W/X or 10W/X grade, is surprisingly volatile, and an oil film around this temperature will be severely depleted by evaporation loss.

Back in the 1970s the solution was to use a thick oil, typically 20W/50; in the late 1980s even 10W/60 grades were used. But in modern very high RPM engines with efficient high-delivery oil pumps thick oils waste power, and impede heat transfer in some situations.

A light viscosity good synthetic formulated for severe competition use is the logical and intelligent choice for the 21st century.

Hope to be of assistance.

Cheers
Simon
 
Hi there

What oil would you recommend for a BMW E30 325i which drives too and from drift days, with the occasional other trips, plus gets driven hard at drift days? Its also got 150k miles on it so its not a young car. :D
 
Genjuro said:
Hi there

What oil would you recommend for a BMW E30 325i which drives too and from drift days, with the occasional other trips, plus gets driven hard at drift days? Its also got 150k miles on it so its not a young car. :D

The book recommendation is 5w-40 fully synthetic which is fine for track and drifting if you use an ester/pao which is "shear stable".

If you are looking for a higher level of protection then consider a fully synthetic 10w-50 which although will not give you as good cold start, it will withstand higher engine temperatures being an sae 50.

It's important that the oil is shear stable and stays in grade.

SAE has a test called HT/HS (High Temperature/High Shear) if an oil shears back too much on this high temperature test, it cannot be sold as a multi-grade oil. In fact, the test results from this test are very helpful in indicating the quality of the oil.

The higher the HT/HS number the better because this indicates less shearing. Petroleum oils tend to have low HT/HS numbers which barely meet the standards set by SAE. Because petroleum oils are made with light weight basestocks to begin with, they tend to burn off easily in high temperature conditions which causes deposit formation and oil consumption.
As a result of excessive oil burning and susceptibility to shearing (as well as other factors) petroleum oils must be changed more frequently than synthetics.

Not all multi-viscosity oils shear back so easily. True synthetic oils (PAO’s and Esters) contain basically no waxy contamination to cause crystallization and oil thickening at cold temperatures. In addition, synthetic basestocks do not thin out very much as temperatures increase. So, pour point depressants are unnecessary and higher viscosity basestock fluids can be used which will still meet the "W" requirements for pumpability.

Hence, little or no VI improver additive would need to be used to meet the sae 30, 40 or 50 classification while still meeting 0W or 5W requirements.

The end result is that very little shearing occurs within true synthetic oils because they are not "propped up" with viscosity index improvers. There simply is no place to shear back to. In fact, this is easy to prove by just comparing synthetic and petroleum oils of the same grade.

Synthetics will generally have significantly higher HT/HS numbers. Of course, the obvious result is that your oil remains "in grade" for a much longer period of time for better engine protection and longer oil life.

Hope this helps.

Cheers
Simon
 
I need an advice too :)

I have a 200sx s13 with upped boost from 0,7 to 0,9 bar (otherwise std. but i plan to go for cca 220hp in near future). Im driving hard 80% of time (drifting mostly, some trackdays...) and 20% of short runs to work, store etc. Curently im using Valvoline Syntpower 5w50, but i just got 4l can of Castrol RS 10w60 for my next oil change.

RS is quite popular choice with S13 owners. How good is it realy ? How does it perform if compared to RS 0w40 ? Do you recomend diferent oil for my car and how often should i change it, 5000km soon enough, too soon, just right ?

Tnx
 
iKst said:
I need an advice too :)

I have a 200sx s13 with upped boost from 0,7 to 0,9 bar (otherwise std. but i plan to go for cca 220hp in near future). Im driving hard 80% of time (drifting mostly, some trackdays...) and 20% of short runs to work, store etc. Curently im using Valvoline Syntpower 5w50, but i just got 4l can of Castrol RS 10w60 for my next oil change.

RS is quite popular choice with S13 owners. How good is it realy ? How does it perform if compared to RS 0w40 ? Do you recomend diferent oil for my car and how often should i change it, 5000km soon enough, too soon, just right ?

Tnx

We recommend Silkolene PRO S 10w-50 to SX owners and many on the SXOC are using this oil and pleased with the performance.

Castrol 10w-60 is a "hydrocracked" oil and inferior to the ester/pao based PRO S. RS Power 0w-40 is a PAO and therefore superior to the 10w-60 but it may be a little thin when cold in the SX engine.

RS 10w-60 will break down quickly so I would consider 5000 miles to be too long. You will have no problems with 6000 plus with Silkolene PRO products.

Cheers
Simon
 
Ill check if there is a dealer for Silkolene oils in Slovenija. If not ill put RS 0w40.

Tnx for advice.
 
You may find this of interest as it's written by a chemist.

Scary stuff really!

A word of caution – You get what you pay for!

Below is an article written by John Rowland, Silkolene/Fuchs Chief R & D Chemist for 40 years.

Quote:

Costs of synthetics vary considerably. The most expensive are the “Ester” types originally only used in jet engines. These cost 6 to 10 times more than high quality mineral oils.

The cheapest synthetics are not really synthetic at all, from a chemists point of view. These are in fact specially refined light viscosity mineral oils known as “hydrocracked”. These have some advantages over equivalent mineral oils, particularly in lower viscosity motor oils such as 5w-30 or other oils with a low “W” rating such as 5w-50 etc and they cost about 1.5 times more than good quality mineral fractions.

We use several different grades of this base oil, where appropriate. This is the “synthetic” which is always used in cheap oils that are labelled “synthetic”. Yes it’s a cruel world, you get what you pay for!

Now, you may ask, why are these special mineral oils called “synthetic”? Well, it was all sorted in a legal battle that took place in the USA about ten years ago. Sound reasons (including evidence from a Nobel Prize winning chemist) were disregarded and the final ruling was that certain mineral bases that had undergone extra chemical treatments could be called “synthetic”.

Needless to say, the marketing executives wet their knickers with pure delight! They realised that this meant, and still does, that the critical buzz-word “synthetic” could be printed on a can of cheap oil provided that the contents included a few percent of “hydrocracked” mineral oil, at a cost of quite literally a few pence.

So, the chemistry of “synthetics” is complex and so is the politics!

The economics are very simple. If you like the look of a smart well-marketed can with “synthetic” printed on it, fair enough, it will not cost you a lot; and now you know why this is the case.

But, if you drive a high performance car, and you intend to keep it for several years, and maybe do the odd “track day”, then you need a genuine Ester/PAO (Poly Alpha Olefin) synthetic oil.

This oil costs more money to buy, because it costs us a lot of money to make, very simply, you always get what you pay for!

Unquote:

This article is something that all car owners should read and understand before buying oil and I’ve posted this with Johns permission.

Enlighteneing :thumbs:

Cheers
Simon
 
Right so maybe an awkward one...

What would you recommend putting in my RX7 (3rd gen, so twin turbo rotary engine). Used on track a fair amount.

At the moment im using mineral oil, under the impression that this is what they are meant to be run on. I know this probably doesnt last that long but probably change the oil about every 2k anyway as its not really expensive.

Cheers for any answers, but dont make it too technical or its going to go straight over my head :wack:

Cheers
Lee
 
I agree that mineral is the only one Mazda recommend for the RX7.

You can use this or a semi-synthetic of the MC (Molecularly Converted) type which does not contain esters or pao's.

So it's 10w-40 mineral or 10w-40 semi-synthetic.

Just email me for a list and I'll point you in the right direction.

Silkolene recommend XTR 10w-40 semi-synthetic (MC) in their book. I personally use XTR 5w-30 in my RX8.

Cheers
Simon
 
From the 1st November we will be adding MOTUL 300V products to out existing brands of Silkolene, Fuchs, Castrol, Mobil and Total.

Cheers
Simon
 
Hey Simon,

Can you do me a cheapo bulk buy on some Castrol GTX 10W40?

Go on, I'll even stick a company sticker on my Corolla ;)
 
Any oil advice for a 1981 Toyota Starlet 1.3 4K Engine thats been extensively modified for stock car use? Driven regulary along with hard driving for drift days :)
 
Loxam said:
Any oil advice for a 1981 Toyota Starlet 1.3 4K Engine thats been extensively modified for stock car use? Driven regulary along with hard driving for drift days :)

The stock recomendation for the car was for a 10w-40 semi synthetic, however extensivley modded and drifted you may want some thing that can take more of a beating.

What kind of temps do you hit?

Cheers

Guy.
 
Cheers for the info, I think ill try it on what you said to start with, and see what the temp's I hit are when I am drifting (still prepping the car!).
 
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