Diesel for drifting .... Yes or no?

Your ignoring the simple fact that its not used in grass roots drifting nor in competition/pro drifting. (With the exception of black smoke, who have destroyed their car many time this season and have run out of money) That says it all really!

If your a firm believer stav than why not sell your petrol drift cars and build a diesel version and then come back and tell me how they are!
 
Stavros said:
As Sam edited his post after the last two replies, there's more to say...



A 1500rpm to 5000rpm powerband of say, a remapped 335D, is far bigger than a powerband of the vast majority of engines with the same power and torque. The only difference is the gearing, or indeed gear has to be longer to suit, and lo and behold, diesel gearing is.

By your logic a motorbike engine will be a better drifter as they make the power at 15,000.

Black Smoke Racings car cost 100k+? LOL, fuck you get your info from? It's not a remotely expensive build.
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I'll work from bottom to top:
I was at pembrey either last year or 2012 for BDC when black smoke were over, and a few of us were chatting with them and that's what they said it had cost! It may have been the total in development costs etc to get to that point but that was their figure. Their gearbox alone was a small fortune.

When did I say it was all about top end power, I didn't. I said you need top end power, NOT all the power at top end. You took what I said and went to the extreme.

There's no doubt they have a wide power band but what do they hit the limiter at? As that's when a diesel engine just stops, there's no bouncing off limiters right? It would take a great driver to keep the gears changing to stop it from dieing and straightening you out.

And lastly I didn't edit in reply I was editing as you responded.
 
JDM-SAM said:
When did I say it was all about top end power, I didn't. I said you need top end power, NOT all the power at top end. You took what I said and went to the extreme.
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So you're telling me you think 270bhp for a cheap E46 330d with just a remap isn't enough power?

JDM-SAM said:
There's no doubt they have a wide power band but what do they hit the limiter at? As that's when a diesel engine just stops, there's no bouncing off limiters right?
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Eh? So you basically have no idea about diesels then. A rev limit is a rev limit, it doesn't turn off, it just revs no further, same as a petrol. It doesn't matter their rev limit is lower when the powerband begins sooner, a powerband is a powerband. A bike engine or a Honda engine or whatever isn't a better drift engine just as it has a higher rev limit, it's the powerband size that counts.
That's why cars have gears, so if one gear is too low, use the next one.


JDM-SAM said:
It would take a great driver to keep the gears changing to stop it from dieing and straightening you out.
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Aside from doing a Groupon cheap drifting lesson, can you drift? You kind of sound like you have no idea what you're talking about.

Ruishy1 said:
feel like we have another turbokick thread coming on.......
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Aside from that Supra thread, he made sense, sometimes.
 
Out of curiosity, if diesel engine is really easy to get power and good, why only a few diesel engine is used in drifting?

To me, I just hate diesel engine, they return great mpg but most of them sounds shit and whenever they accelerate, they fart a black cloud of smoke which is gay. Its just my opinion
 
The availability you guys have to manual RWD turbo diesel sedans has me very jealous. Having driven a large range of factory turbo diesels through my old job in vehicle leasing gave me a great appreciation for them.

5 years ago when learning to drift it was torque that helped me, not revs and hp. Even now, i never think "i wish i had more hp for this section", its always "i wish i had more torque".

The aftermarket support for diesel engines in drifting or road racing just doesnt exist, however in the 4WD community the support is massive, especially Nissan turbo diesels over here (and in the middle east). Judging by the punishment they take while off road I'm sure the same engines could be used in amateur drifting.

As a result I have always wanted to see what a properly cooled and prepped TD42 turbo would go like, using as much of the 4WD knowledge as possible. A friend of mine is interested as well and we are going to see if we can build one up and put it in a diesel C33 Laurel shell. Gearbox is the main issue, for amateur stuff an RB25DET gearbox should deal with the torque, or a RWD converted GTR box (can be picked up for as little as NZD$1000 here) and just use a diesel diff as its ~3.6:1 ratio IIRC. Cooling is next as they like to run hot and melt heads, but with two junkyard oil coolers and a nice big twin pass speedway radiator we should have it sussed. Also using water to air intercooler from a Subaru with water radiator in the boot.

Competitively compound turbo's to give the response would be best, and a 4 speed dog box with quick change rear end to make the best use of gears available depending on course. Then the only issue being the extra weight of the engines IMO, and in a big enough chassis it's not really an issue.

Will let you know how we get on! We are sourcing an engine now, and have a shell lined up.
 
LostKen- So few, as diesel tuning in the UK is a black art that very few understand, which is the main problem. They're also not JDM enough so we've not got them to copy for once, and in the USA it's only BIG diesels, ie pickups, that have a massive tuning scene behind them. In the UK we're sheep and incredibly unimaginative when it comes to tuning, so until it becomes mainsteam elsewhere, it won't here.
Also, diesels still have a stigma of being something they're not, and considering we all use cheap old cars- almost all the good ones are newer diesels we can't afford.
And the stigma is shown in your post tbh- Black smoke- I can show you 335Ds with well over 350bhp and 550bhp that don't produce any smoke at any point- And most petrol engines with the same power/torque will a bit!
Diesels aren't better, but they are perfectly good for most setups.

BenRice- Exactly, torque. People bang on and on and on about bhp in drifting, when 99.9% of the time its torque they need. I'm the same, not once do I remember thinking I need more power, but torque yes. Torque is what spins the wheels. Thing is, a lot of people don't seem to know the difference, or in the case of a lot of people on here, has never actually drifted in their lives lol.
 
Imo, I have a diesel bmw 320d and in moist wether it has no problems on decent size islands. No on and off really as you can hold the power on and torque tends to take over. Thats on an open diff. I sit mine at about 3.5/4 thousand no worries
 
Since this debate started I've watched a few videos of diesel drifting, on proper tracks. Its opened my eyes slightly to there potential, although none have impressed me and the sound is awful. I know I'll never choose one.
I still don't think they are AS suited to drifting as a similarly powered petrol engine. But maybe that's just my personal preference due to the way you have to drive them more aggressively, and accompanied with the better noise of a high revving motor, gives for a more exciting drive.
And its not all about torque stav, you do ok in your mx5! Mad mike does ok in his rex's.
 
JDM-SAM said:
But maybe that's just my personal preference due to the way you have to drive them more aggressively, and accompanied with the better noise of a high revving motor, gives for a more exciting drive.
And its not all about torque stav, you do ok in your mx5! Mad mike does ok in his rex's.
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What are you on about now lol. Your first argument is diesels would be too hard to drive due to the short powerband, now you're saying you prefer high revving petrol engines as you have to drive them harder.

And no it's not all about torque, but we was replying to you saying about them not being powerful enough. And if you've got that argument, then the engine doesn't matter at all when driving properly, petrol or diesel, as MX5s have no power OR torque lol.

Can't keep changing your argument to try and justify your opinions that make no sense lol.

PS- Please don't take Mad Mikes "Zero torque" comments all the time seriously, as it's pretty impossible for that engine to have no torque. It's a quad rotor Peripheral Port engine. It might not have a lot of LOW RPM torque, but it's still going to have at least 350-400lbft.
 
I've just got a E36 2.5TDS and its been played with and drifts ok so far. Needs slightly more power and more lock but I'm hoping it goes well :) I went for a diesel just to be different lol
 
Stavros said:
What are you on about now lol. Your first argument is diesels would be too hard to drive due to the short powerband, now you're saying you prefer high revving petrol engines as you have to drive them harder.

And no it's not all about torque, but we was replying to you saying about them not being powerful enough. And if you've got that argument, then the engine doesn't matter at all when driving properly, petrol or diesel, as MX5s have no power OR torque lol.

Can't keep changing your argument to try and justify your opinions that make no sense lol.

PS- Please don't take Mad Mikes "Zero torque" comments all the time seriously, as it's pretty impossible for that engine to have no torque. It's a quad rotor Peripheral Port engine. It might not have a lot of LOW RPM torque, but it's still going to have at least 350-400lbft.
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When did I ever say about them not being powerful enough? When I was talking about power I was talking about top of the rev range power. I also never said they had small power bands, I think I actually said I agreed they have wide power bands but just lower down the rev range.

I've not changed my views on them, either my explain ration of what I trying to say is shit or your reading it differently.
 
Also with regards to the aggressive driving comment I was trying to say I prefer the more aggressive style required to drift a high revving engine, compared to a very torquey engine which is more point and squirt, job done. That make sense?
 
Power at the top end of the rev range- Err, they do. Just their rev range starts lower and ends lower. It's exactly the same just starts and ends at a different place. Same as a motorbike engine who's rev range might start at 6k but end at 12k.

And you now say they are point and squirt and dont need aggression, while earlier you said they would be hard to drift due to small rev range etc needing constant gear changes.

I don't know why im discussing this with you as you sound like someone with pretty much no real world experience of diesels or drifting in general but has a loud opinion on it anyhow.
 
LostKen said:
..To me, I just hate diesel engine, they return great mpg but most of them sounds shit and whenever they accelerate, they fart a black cloud of smoke which is gay. Its just my opinion
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What you are describing.. is whats under the bonnet, in the car.. in your signature. LMAO!

I would put a diesel and a SR20DET on PAR with both sounding shit tbh.. Like an old massey fergusson..

Massey-Ferguson_54174_1.jpg
 
As above, the sounding shit comments just show he's wittering on about stuff he's no idea about, as they sound as awesome as anything else.

Even a standard diesel EXHAUST sounds fine/good, it's the engine itself that sounds like a bag of spanners, hence the stereotype they sound shit. People who say diesels sound shit have usually never heard one with a proper exhaust.
 
mint said:
What you are describing.. is whats under the bonnet, in the car.. in your signature. LMAO!

I would put a diesel and a SR20DET on PAR with both sounding shit tbh.. Like an old massey fergusson..

Massey-Ferguson_54174_1.jpg
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That's not fair on the old 35, those 3 pots sound well cool :(

seriously though, its all matter of taste at the end of the day. Lots of SRs sound terrible, Lots of diesels sound terrible. Most typical drifter BMW 325i/328i's sound terrible also, IMO. Even some 2JZ's sound bad, with the wrong exhaust system.

Put a nice system on any of them, tune em right and they can all sound awesome.

I'm not even getting into the diesel power vs driftability argument cos if you can drift a petrol well, you can therefore drift a diesel well too. SIMPLES

EDIT
(with the exception of the M50 engines, best thing for them is a quiet exhaust :p)
 
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