Driftworks GeoMaster Hub Knuckles

FFS Kam stop telling people the drums brake fit straight on!


Shit like that is the reason why I got fucking stranded down my workshop VERY late!!


Ok, rant over, its simple to sort... Some old drive shafts nuts and washers work great as spacers.... IF you already knew about this and had them too hand!! Dw already knew about this issue before I advised....... So should say it on a bit of paper in the box or something instead of keep telling people the drum brakes 'fit straight on!'


Oh and people, just a note, if fitting to a s14/s14a/s15 you NEED the nuts from a s13 that retain the rear shocks! Again, people should be advised about this imo!!


Now that's out the way, they are completely awesome, with the roll centre correction, car drives lovely on them, even more noticable when just driving about on the roads :) low speed cornering and parking etc feels a bit strange, but just like a welded diff... You get used to it after time :)


Quicker steering with near on zero effort with the wheel..! Mental lock can be gained, far more then ill ever need at my skill level!

Oh, since fitting them, I have not been able to get the stock drum brake to lock the rears... No matter what I do... I believe this is down to the cables since swapping them.hard to explain.... And on that note, you swap the backing plates and cables... Just remove the cables, backing plates shoes mech etc as an assembly, will save you loads of time and pissing about with springs lol

Also, to save time... Prep the geos' before fitting... Small round file required to get all the unwanted powder coating out the bolt holes, where the rear hubs fit etc...

Also I had to take a bit of sand paper to the front splines to get the hubs on! Better then them being loose thou :) not sure if others have/will have... But worthraking into consideration.
 
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Well said Clive.

When I got mine it was definitely not an easy job to fit them. Luckily I'm an engineer so have things like large washers a lathe and files kicking about to do the many modifications required to fit these hubs. But many people won't

Fitting the rear bearings to the hubs was hard enough in itself as the bore of the knuckle took a lot of cleaning up for the bearing to fit.

The tapers for the ball joints also are full of paint so require cleaning out or the tapers just work loose after a few days. (as I found out after I'd driven home and heard a knocking :( )

Swapping the handbrake cables from side to side is fairly easy but they don't bolt to the car properly after so need a few cable ties to hold the secure and away from the prop.

I needed about 6 m18 washers per side to allow the handbrake mechanisms pivot bolt to fit. It would cost about a fiver to make these from a turned bar of steel and would be a really easy and worthwhile addition to the kit. Also small sleeves to slip in the front knuckles so people dont have to drill out the s13 coilovers to suit m14 bolts.

But as Clive has said. After you have managed to get them on they are a godsend and really transform how the car drifts.
The Ackerman cancelation makes it very strange to drive on the road and is not ideal for grip handling as it scrubs tyres out and causes uneasy handling at speed. But when drifting as they are meant for it makes the car so much more chuckable. You feel like you have more time in the drift to position the car due to how stable it feels.

As said they are definitely not an easy bolt on mod but worth while once fitted. Just don't start after work and expect to have them all done in a hour like I did lol.
 
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also don't forget you need to modify your rear camber arms and traction arms if you deck your caar. otherwise the drive shafts get ruined! :(
 
I've not had that problem on the s13 but I believe Clive did. Maybe it's more an s14/a thing.
 
m.d. said:
Well said Clive.

When I got mine it was definitely not an easy job to fit them. Luckily I'm an engineer so have things like large washers a lathe and files kicking about to do the many modifications required to fit these hubs. But many people won't

Fitting the rear bearings to the hubs was hard enough in itself as the bore of the knuckle took a lot of cleaning up for the bearing to fit.

The tapers for the ball joints also are full of paint so require cleaning out or the tapers just work loose after a few days. (as I found out after I'd driven home and heard a knocking :( )

Swapping the handbrake cables from side to side is fairly easy but they don't bolt to the car properly after so need a few cable ties to hold the secure and away from the prop.

I needed about 6 m18 washers per side to allow the handbrake mechanisms pivot bolt to fit. It would cost about a fiver to make these from a turned bar of steel and would be a really easy and worthwhile addition to the kit. Also small sleeves to slip in the front knuckles so people dont have to drill out the s13 coilovers to suit m14 bolts.

But as Clive has said. After you have managed to get them on they are a godsend and really transform how the car drifts.
The Ackerman cancelation makes it very strange to drive on the road and is not ideal for grip handling as it scrubs tyres out and causes uneasy handling at speed. But when drifting as they are meant for it makes the car so much more chuckable. You feel like you have more time in the drift to position the car due to how stable it feels.

As said they are definitely not an easy bolt on mod but worth while once fitted. Just don't start after work and expect to have them all done in a hour like I did lol.
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hi mate what calipers you running on the back? did they fit straight on? ive just tried using standard rear calipers and discs with geomasters and found the calipers dont line up with the bolt holes and look like they need spacing?
cheers
 
Im using skyline callipers but they fit on the same as stock so they should fit strait on. I don't know what sort of jigs are used for these knuckles but it does seem like one set differs from another. And mine are different from one side of the car to the other.
 
TBH i'd really like to know exactly what testing driftworks have done to these. i'm pretty sure any company would put things like these through vigarous tests to make sure there the best they can be. especially at the price they are. there are just some things which you would spot immediately that havent been rectified at all. and for that matter no warning of the issues that you WILL or may incurr.

i'm having to make my own rear arms so the shafts dont get ruined the second i drive it. ill be updating my build up thread with all the progress and results. may also put some measurements up so people can do the same.
 
Personally the first thing I noticed when I took mine out the box was the powder coating. For a start it was in several places that should have been masked off. And secondly it chips really really easily as the knuckles do not appear to have been shot blasted before powdercoat. I had just got my subframe coated at the same time as fitting the knuckles and I can beat hell out of that and the paint doesn't move.
The slightest knock on the knuckles and big flakes of orange fall off.

We all sound really picky here I've noticed as the product is basically a good part. But there are so many little faults and issues that are either not mentioned or could have been rectified with little effort before sale it kinda puts a downer on the knuckles. As said especially for the price.
 
Guys I appreciate that some of you have had to do some small jobs to fit the hubs, but I’d just like to clear a few things up. Yes we still have some work to do to ‘polish’ this product, but what a customer has to do to fit them as they are is not rocket science, it's something that any competant mechanic will take in their stride.
That’s not to say that we’re not acting on the more constructive side of this feedback. I’ve actually taken over product development again myself recently, and have been working hard in the new year with the various stages of manufacture to help solve these small issues.

I can understand that it’s hard for you guys to comprehend the work involved in a project of this scale, as obviously you don’t get to see what goes on in the background at Driftworks. But let me assure you taking on production of such a complicated semi mass produced product is one of the most difficult, expensive and time consuming jobs a business can do.
I would like to assure you that we are very good at what we do, we do care, and yes Struggle: We do test our products. Geomasters were tested on the S15, and a road S14 for a year before we put them into production.
Just to give you an idea of what sort of work we put into testing and general R&D, we spent over £10k and 8months on a research and development project to create a new range or arms that included completely solving the problem of arms hitting the CV boot on retardedly low cars. That included 3d scanning inner wheel arches, subframes, and all arms in motion under compression from any possible ride height.
Unfortunately we’ve had to shelve the project because the arms would be more expensive, and research shows that the majority of people would still rather go and buy the ebay arms that will potentially kill them :wack:

On that subject I’ve heard through the grapevine that some people think we are ripping customers off charging what we do for Geo's. Honestly if people had any clue what these things cost us to manufacture, and how long it takes for us to recover the astronomical set up costs, they’d feel more than a little ridiculous saying something like that..
We have these parts completely made in the UK for reasons of quality control, and also because as a company we want to support British manufacturing as it’s the best in the world. We could have them made in China for half the price and actually make some profit. But the quality and most importantly safety of the product could suffer, so we are not willing to do that.
Anyway, before I go off on a total tangent here :D. In summary: Thanks to those of you that gave constructive feedback. We’re acting on it, and in the mean time even as they are Geomasters are still completely unbeatable value, and are now the knuckle of choice for multiple Formula D teams, D1SL drivers, and a whole host of UK and European teams that have won many events with the help of Geomasters :thumbs:
 
sorry to barge in here, but what m.d and some others say about the fronts reducing ackerman... is it really that noticable? And does it actually reduce the effectiveness of the knuckles for grip use? Or is it just down to alignment?

I really want some for the lock, quicker rack and more lows, but that has kinda put me off them for now.

And its nothing to do with this negativity on this page - as an engineer, I know how hard it is to design and supply something of this nature, and nothing has been mentioned that I personally wouldnt expect to encounter anyways! Thats what you get with something so radical as these. I agree though, these issues should have been raised before now...
 
Munkul, we use our red S14a with just coilovers, Geomasters, huge brakes and 265 track tyres all round on proper track days. It is one of the best handling Nissans I have ever driven fast, and feedback on the limit at extremely high speed is superb. It's only 250 bhp, but the suspension setup allowed us to keep up with an E46M3 with KW V3 suspension, huge brakes and the same tyres, around Bruntingthorpe for 5 laps, and that car was driven by one of the best track drivers I know.
In a perfect world you would put a bit more akerman into the hubs for a dedicated track setup, but in the real world it has no noticeable negatives as far as I'm concerned.
 
I suspect this will be mainly at lower speeds, eg going round a mini roundabout slowly. Once loaded up in a bend I reckon awesomeness will ensue.

As my s14 is now done and I will be using them pretty intensively for grip use I will report on my findings very soon along with videos and nuburgring lap times from spring onwards.

I expected a little work but frankly and a few spacers and filing a bit of powder coating didnt bother me.

Munkul said:
sorry to barge in here, but what m.d and some others say about the fronts reducing ackerman... is it really that noticable? And does it actually reduce the effectiveness of the knuckles for grip use? Or is it just down to alignment?

I really want some for the lock, quicker rack and more lows, but that has kinda put me off them for now.

And its nothing to do with this negativity on this page - as an engineer, I know how hard it is to design and supply something of this nature, and nothing has been mentioned that I personally wouldnt expect to encounter anyways! Thats what you get with something so radical as these. I agree though, these issues should have been raised before now...
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Karan said:
I suspect this will be mainly at lower speeds, eg going round a mini roundabout slowly. Once loaded up in a bend I reckon awesomeness will ensue.
.
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yeap, after driving the car around Lydden Hill yesterday, the ackerman wasn't noticeable. its only when going like super slow around mini round abouts, parking etc :)


My post wasn't meant as a dig, it was just I felt Kam saying they 'just bolt on' was a bit Meh...

Could compare it like people buying a cheap "sr20det s14" intercooler kit off ebay, and wonder why the odd bit don't fit perfectly...
 
Phil 'The Guy' said:
.
That’s not to say that we’re not acting on the more constructive side of this feedback. I’ve actually taken over product development again myself recently, and have been working hard in the new year with the various stages of manufacture to help solve these small issues.

I can understand that it’s hard for you guys to comprehend the work involved in a project of this scale, as obviously you don’t get to see what goes on in the background at Driftworks. But let me assure you taking on production of such a complicated semi mass produced product is one of the most difficult, expensive and time consuming jobs a business can do.
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From what i have seen the product in general looks Great. Everyone has been telling me to get some.

But as the above is basically what i do. When did some initial analysis, I so would have had on there that it was fit able at home (like coil overs etc) we all know drifters are cheap. by not making them a "bolt on"/ "hassle free" your halving your market? on the drawing broad this probably would have been high on the list.

also one of the other first things you would have done was tested your maximum extents and limitations. on all the models particularly the S14 which has to be one of the most common drift cars here in the uk, to not be able to work without fouling as per struggle. seems a pain.

I'm guessing development of Kinked arms as per PBM might be a way forward (although in all honesty i have never looked into it to much) but i know i need them for my s13 atm as (in a related issue with just the coil overs lowered the rear tow arms foul the sub frame.

there must have been massive of considerations to take in and as you say £10,000's of pound of money spent, which when your doing it seems hard to justify to people from outside. I have that battle everyday.

If you need any of the Lazer scanning stuff and all that done or any small part/product development that you want to outsource/need some advice. let me know. depending on what it is and what it could achieve. i could even get it part substituted with some kind of funding.

At least your taking on developing new things for us guys to use. and for that I'm sure the whole drift community is thankfull

Hopefully ill be able to afford some one day.
 
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Joe-sef said:
But as the above is basically what i do. When did some initial analysis, I so would have had on there that it was fit able at home (like coil overs etc) we all know drifters are cheap. by not making them a "bolt on"/ "hassle free" your halving your market? on the drawing broad this probably would have been high on the list.
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Im not fully understanding why people are having trouble fitting them.. Im just a regular cockend have a go mechanic and i fitted my geomasters on a driveway, with a halfords tool kit, a shit jack, some 800's sand paper (gen one Geomasters, they were a tight fit on the wheel bearings) and some big washers to go on the front LCA balljoint.

Fuckin' Magnets.
 
I also lobbed mine on in a muddy garage with a halfords tool kit and some washers. Apart from making the sleeves to fit the 12mm s13 coilover bolts as drilling out the coilover is a massive bodge IMO and I was not prepared to do that.
It's doable as you say. But its not as easy as just lobbing them on.
And if they were just bolt on like kam has stated then they would be just that.
But as they are not we are just suggesting that with all the development and time spent on the knuckles how come a set of 50p washers and a few fitting instructions are not included in the box. As surely when testing the knuckles it would have been noted that these items were needed to allow a "direct fit"

Phil I believe you may be taking this the wrong way slightly as we are not slating the knuckles. As personally I and I see Clive has mentioned that once fitted they are very very good at what they do.
We were just suggesting that for a very small amount of additional effort they could be vastly improved to the more general market. And the lesser able mechanic.
Although its only some washers. If you bought your wardrobe from ikea and started putting it together but it didn't include the screws you would be a little miffed!!

As I say. I'm an engineer so can fully appreciate the cost of making something like this. And keeping engineering in this country is something I feel is 100% needed in today's economic climate. So with you on that one all the way.

To be honest for me a heads up note in the box would have been all that it took to allow me to prepare to fit these, rather than having my car stuck on axle stands why I get a taxi to the shops to pick up some large washers.

Something like

Additional tools and prep required before fitting=

8 large steel washers
14mm drill for s13 coilovers
Emery paper + Small round file. to clear powder coat away from mating faces.
Modified traction arms for low ride height clearance with CV.
 
Phil 'The Guy' said:
and yes Struggle: We do test our products. Geomasters were tested on the S15, and a road S14 for a year before we put them into production.
Just to give you an idea of what sort of work we put into testing and general R&D, we spent over £10k and 8months on a research and development project to create a new range or arms that included completely solving the problem of arms hitting the CV boot on retardedly low cars. That included 3d scanning inner wheel arches, subframes, and all arms in motion under compression from any possible ride height.
Unfortunately we’ve had to shelve the project because the arms would be more expensive, and research shows that the majority of people would still rather go and buy the ebay arms that will potentially kill them :wack:
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hi phil.

i'm not saying testing hasn't been done, i was merely asking what testing had been done.

could you please link me or pm me details with pictures of these said arms. if they do what i was originaly trying to do then i'll buy some right now!!!

p.s. munkul, the ackerman is insanly different. like very nearly parallel on full lock.
 
also, if you look at the power by max shop (as myself and andy f did) some of there products are awesome, Adjustable gearsticks. all kinds of shit. we want more of that to, less off the shelf bits for corsa's! (on a side note) things like this - and some Sleaves for the 14 to 12 mm bolt (as they are really tough to get hold off). even if they were like £10. they would be worth while. Hell if i had a online shop to sell them i would get them made myself!

Fair enough paz if you can do it on a drive way with a halfords tool kit then i guess its job done, just some people are not as resourcefull as me and you. a no tweaking needed would be awesome. remember some of these american kids are even dumber then ones over here!
 
Phil 'The Guy' said:
Struggle: As I said the project was shelved. So we didn't ever have them made.
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i would imagine as people start realising what a difference geo's make and more are sold surely loads of people are going to need arms like that? it can't be all that hard to design them surely? and can't cost much more than standard ones. i'd say it would be a worth while investment getting them made up because one day people are going to need them.
 
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